Weapon balance

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Weapon balance

Postby unk » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:03 pm

So I've been looking around at a little PvP, on farms/events. Also I've been looking at why most people use certain items for PvP and in PvM, we've chatted about this on Discord a few times.

Swordsmanship:
Most people seem to use this - as a main weapon skill if you're a warrior.
Halberds - Pretty much the main weapon among warriors on the shard. I'm sure everyone can all agree it's the item most worth using

Fencing:
Used by some - I've seen a few people use spears or a warfork/heater shield. It can be decent, but not nearly as desirable as a halberd.

Macefighting:
Used by some warriors or mages with staves - Seems quite good to deal some damage as an alternative to wrestling for mages. For warriors it just seems to be a troll skill; you don't deal nearly as much damage with a war hammer as a halberd, can't use poisoning. The amount of stamina they drain doesn't seem to be worth much when you can just refresh potion through it. Has chance to damage armor, which can be annoying but doesn't help you win a fight.

Archery:
Haven't heard of anyone using this during serious PvP, used pretty much just my PvMers/treasure hunters. And even then, people just use bows because crossbows are stupidly slow.

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So after looking at these individually, I think you might get where I'm going - it would be nice to see some changes that would welcome the use of different weapons.

Since during melee combat, your next swing will re-charge while you're running around and not next to your opponent, any small speed bonus doesn't really help that much. If you had to sit there next to eachother and fight, fencing may do better but the current setup for the weapon skills isn't very good. I think an overhaul of Fencing would have to be done to make it worth while. Making them just a little bit faster won't do much, because a halberd will hit the same time during that style of "run and hit" combat that people seem to do. It'd even be nice to see a bigger variety of swords weapons used. I know staff mentioned poisonable axes, and I think that would be great. But I think all other weapons need some attention as well. At the moment, a warrior with macefighting has very little going for him, you can't poison unless you're a mage as well, so you're stuck just doing shit damage and mild stamina drain, maybe scaring someone off so you don't damage their armor.

For me, it'd be cool to see archery buffed for PvP somehow so it could bring an interesting element to events/tournaments/PvP in general(maybe make it so a poison potion can be used on a certain amount of arrows?). Right now mages seem the most OP, and if you're not a mage then chances are you're a halberd warrior. I'd love to see suggestions on how extra balance/introduction of currently unused weapons could be done
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Re: Weapon balance

Postby Hardox » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:46 pm

i been testing weapons in the last few days.
we are trying to buff some weapons in hopes to make them viable
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Re: Weapon balance

Postby Frans » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:25 am

I sincerely hope that this won't be changed or done anything about. Touching with the pvp system will result in most likely ruining it after what has been working for years. It isn't broken.

Let's consider crafting costs needed to make the items, spears are 12 ingots and halberds are 20 ingots. Maybe people should try the Pitchfork instead.

Swordsmanship:
Most people seem to use this - as a main weapon skill if you're a warrior.
Halberds - Pretty much the main weapon among warriors on the shard. I'm sure everyone can all agree it's the item most worth using

http://neverlandsphoenix.org/wordpress/ ... dsmanship/ - As swordsmanship's main stat is STR = damage they should deal most damage.

Fencing:
Used by some - I've seen a few people use spears or a warfork/heater shield. It can be decent, but not nearly as desirable as a halberd.

http://neverlandsphoenix.org/wordpress/wiki/fencing/ - Fencing are the quick weaponry, stand next to a person who uses a halberd, and you should deal more damage after a longer amount of time hitting eachother.
Also, try the Pitchfork.

Macefighting:
Used by some warriors or mages with staves - Seems quite good to deal some damage as an alternative to wrestling for mages. For warriors it just seems to be a troll skill; you don't deal nearly as much damage with a war hammer as a halberd, can't use poisoning. The amount of stamina they drain doesn't seem to be worth much when you can just refresh potion through it. Has chance to damage armor, which can be annoying but doesn't help you win a fight.

http://neverlandsphoenix.org/wordpress/ ... efighting/ - Drains stamina AND destroys oponement's armour. And Mages can use the staffs while casting, those are already 3 different 'special' things for the skill.

Archery:
Haven't heard of anyone using this during serious PvP, used pretty much just my PvMers/treasure hunters. And even then, people just use bows because crossbows are stupidly slow.

Because it's a PVM skill. Bows are quick and if theyre poisonous the monsters will try to cure themselves, that's why people use them on NPCs to drain mana. There is no need to use bows in PVP as the PVP system had always worked without this.

Now about your other stuff about mages being the strongest... There are mana drain potions, paralyze potions, try those out. People don't use these because they don't know about it? I think? If these were properly used I'd say the PVP system already had an overhaul and people will start complaining about them when others start using them. Imagine a dagger with paralyze potions, or daggers with mana drain potions on a mage. Fuck sake chad you ruined it already but they just don't realise it yet!
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Re: Weapon balance

Postby unk » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:24 pm

You're right, we can just disregard 80% of the weapons that exist. The point of a weapon is to deal damage, the only purpose of fighting is to kill your opponent. The speed bonus of fencing isn't worth it, because when you're running around with your opponent, a hally/fencing weapon can just hit at the same time since people don't sit still to fight, you generally don't utilize it being faster.

Yes macefighting drains some stam and damages armor, and it's shit at dealing damage(which is the point of fighting). It also has strength as it's main stat, but deals less damage than the others. The fact that mages can use it doesn't make it better for warriors, it might be a half-decent second or third weapon skill that you'll might use. No warrior should pick this for their only weapon skill because you can't win fights with it alone.

Archery is a PvM skill because it's not good enough for PvP, if it was designed so it could be useful(but not OP) in PvP, then it could also be a PvP skill.
There is no need to use bows in PVP as the PVP system had always worked without this.
The PvP system is simple as hell and boring, most people are mages like I said because they're the best. Other than that you use a halberd. Things aren't balanced when you have 1 weapon being used out of dozens of possible ones.

About the new potions, I don't even know how to get them, probably with a high-level rare that not everyone has access/enough gold to buy. It would be nice if combat/weapons were balanced so that everyone who uses them can enjoy it, you don't get those sorts of potions at events, and the most people don't even know about them.

Overall, my original post wasn't all about how to make weapon skills other than swords viable(although that would be nice too), even in Swordsmanship there are a ton of other weapons that could be utilized but aren't because the system is poorly balanced. If you're concerned about how many ingots they cost, then adjust it accordingly along with the damage. IMO the halberd should have the damage lowered slightly and other weapons can have theirs increased. By doing that people would actually have the desire to try/use other weapons and have some actual variety. What's the point in having so many weapons available if they aren't worth using? Might as well just delete them if that's the case
Last edited by unk on Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Weapon balance

Postby Black Spike » Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:13 pm

I also didn’t know about those pots… how do it get those? Does it work together with poisoning?
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Re: Weapon balance

Postby Frans » Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:25 pm

Black Spike wrote:I also didn’t know about those pots… how do it get those? Does it work together with poisoning?

Necro reagents and 125 alchemy with the crystal mortar and pestle rare. Heck, when I got back I believe 4 of us got this one from a Champion spawn as an event.
Shouldn't be hard to find someone willing to lend this to you.
Only requirement of these potions is that you need alchemy itself to apply to weaponry. (Mana drain and paralyze)
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